python*: IDLE requires py*-tkinter

[LenoreHorner]

OS X 10.9.1 Macports 2.2.1 Xcode 5.0.2

IDLE requires py27-tkinter

/Applications/MacPorts/Python\ 2.7/IDLE.app/Contents/MacOS/IDLE ; exit;
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Applications/MacPorts/Python 2.7/IDLE.app/Contents/Resources/idlemain.py", line 71, in <module>
    from idlelib import macosxSupport
  File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/idlelib/macosxSupport.py", line 6, in <module>
    import Tkinter
  File "/opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 39, in <module>
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
logout

BUT py27-tkinter requires python27

port info py27-tkinter
py27-tkinter @2.7.6 (python, graphics)
Variants:             universal

Description:          Python bindings to the Tk widget set
Homepage:             http://docs.python.org/release/2.7.6/library/tkinter.html

Extract Dependencies: xz
Library Dependencies: python27, tk
Platforms:            darwin
License:              PSF
Maintainers:          jwa@macports.org, openmaintainer@macports.org

I think this means IDLE needs to be split out as a separate port so that one installs python27, then py-tkinter, then IDLE

[larryv (Lawrence Velázquez)]

Presumably this applies to all of our Python ports.

[ryandesign (Ryan Carsten Schmidt)]

Replying to LenoreHorner@…:

I think this means IDLE needs to be split out as a separate port so that one installs python27, then py-tkinter, then IDLE

That sounds like a totally reasonable suggestion. Anyone know how to build IDLE separately from python?

[cooljeanius (Eric Gallager)]

Cc Me!

[ned-deily (Ned Deily)]

IDLE is included in the Python standard library under idlelib, so it is found in /opt/local/Library/Frameworks/Python[...]/lib/pythonX.Y/idlelib. It is pure Python so it is not built per se, other than the usual byte-compile optimizations during installation. There are multiple ways to invoke IDLE on OS X: 1. python3.N -m idlelib; 2. /opt/local/bin/idleM.N and aliases; and 3. launching IDLE.app which is a thin shell into item 1. Upstream, we don't make it easy to optionally install IDLE, or tkinter for that matter, because neither is intended to be an optional component. That said, if you really do want to make it optional, I suppose it would be better to kill two birds with one stone: you could possibly add a dummy tkinter.py (for Py3) or Tkinter.py (for Py2) that is replaced by the pyMN-tkinter port. Unfortunately, only raising an exception in it isn't very user friendly for people trying to launch IDLE.app; in that case, the output of stderr only ends up in system.log and the user has no obvious explanation why it failed (unlike with 1 and 2 where the traceback would show up in the terminal session). So, to do it right, the dummy tkinter.py should probably in addition try to create a GUI error message, perhaps using AppleScript.

[chrstphrchvz (Christopher Chavez)]

This is technically a duplicate of #38746, although the description and affected ports are more specific in this bug.

[1-61803]

Cc Me!

[GitHubRepositoryX]

Since my ticket got closed I want to point out, that even if installed py37-tkinter, "IDLE.app" won't start at all. It requires the installation of xorg-server. The use of the port "xorg-server" leads to a new issue regarding "IDLE.app". After installing xorg-server and the tkinter port when starting IDLE.app, the icon for IDLE.app will jump the whole time. Therefore I suggest to exclude the whole "IDLE.app" and "Python Launcher.app" from the python ports python27 and python37. It harms the user-experience drastically and disturbs the workflow.

I checked pkgsrc, how they handle the python packages. They exclude the mentioned ".app" (IDLE, Pyhton Launcher) by default. That makes sense to me, because the ".apps" that are getting shipped with the port from macports are unusable for the average macOS users. Nevertheless those packages are completely optional and won't change how python behaves.

The official python-installer provide by the python-foundation has the option to deselect the mentioned ".apps" as well. Both versions seems to have different xorg implementation or IDLE.app, where as the version form python.org ?does not contain xorg? or at least an not visible one. Or a different ?tkinter module that runs nattily on macOS?. (the icon wont jump all the time)

?? are just ideas not actually knowledge.

[GitHubRepositoryX]

I recently checked: ​https://github.com/macports/macports-ports/blob/master/lang/python37/files/patch-setup.py.diff#L11

         # Rather than complicate the code below, detecting and building
         # AquaTk is a separate method. Only one Tkinter will be built on
         # Darwin - either AquaTk, if it is found, or X11 based Tk.
-        if (host_platform == 'darwin' and
-            self.detect_tkinter_darwin(inc_dirs, lib_dirs)):
-            return
+        self.announce("INFO: Not using Tcl/Tk", 2)
+        return

There is AquaTk mentioned, that make sense, so I believe I was right, they use different implementations of Tkinter namely AquaTk and the X11 based Tk. This leads to those problems, because the IDLE.app is written for AquaTk and not X11.

[ned-deily (Ned Deily)]

There is AquaTk mentioned, that make sense, so I believe I was right, they use different implementations of Tkinter namely AquaTk and the X11 based Tk. This leads to those problems, because the IDLE.app is written for AquaTk and not X11.

No, there is only one version of IDLE and one version of Tkinter in a Python release. Tkinter links to the provided version of Tk. MacPorts supports both current variants of Tk for macOS: the old, deprecated (on macOS) X11-based Tk and the "native" AquaTk (AKA Cocoa Tk). The latter is installed with port install tk +quartz. Both variant builds of Tk present the same ABI to Tkinter. You can actually switch between the quartz variant and the X11 variant of the tk port without touching Tkinter. I keep both variants of Tk around - one activated and the other deactivated - to do comparison testing. Both variants work for me with the current IDLEs and the current versions of macOS including Catalina.

[Eason0210 (Eason Huang)]

Thanks Ned Deily,

With your information. I install the "native" AquaTk (AKA Cocoa Tk) with sudo port install tk +quartz and everything working well. But it take me a long time to find here.

If someone already install tk with sudo port install tk, make sure you uninstall it by sudo port uninstall tk before install the AquaTk.